January 30th, 2006
|05:49 pm - VOTE!! That's right!! Your vote counts!!|
Ok, so I'll try and keep this as short as possible. Since I
opened this post up to invite votes from all 1434 members from the Tenimyu Community
I don't know how many people have actually kept up with what's been
happening, but either way, I'll do a quick background to people up to
par. I tried to be as unbiased and objective as possible, don't
know if I succeeded to well, but I tried. Ok...where to
start....I guess it all started with a comment I had made in the
TutixNagayan community (you can read all about that here in hinoai's journal,
she wrote a lengthy report on that incident so I won't go into
detail). The comment I had made was (in reference to hinoai):
"Think of it this way, if you were the biggest asshole on earth but
you're rich as all hell, and once in awhile you dish out a few hundred
dollars to the peasants living around you, would those peasants
"respect" you? Yeah, same thing here. The thing that's in question
here, is that is she really an (and excuse my language here) a**hole,
or are people just making it all up and she's actually a very nice
person sharing because she enjoys the fandom and the people."
Because of that comment, I was banned from the community tenimyuenorondo
which is hinoai's community for uploading scans she has of different
photo sets from various myus, shows, concerts, etc. and magazine
articles. Her rules for it are basically no sharing or posting
any of the pictures with anyone outside that comm, but feel free to
make layouts, icons, etc. with them. In my comments to hinoai's
journal, I pointed out that I purposely made the comment neutral, not
agreeing with either she's 'a' or 'b'. She replied that she felt
insulted by the comment which I believe is justified looking back on it
since most of the comments made duing that incident were hardcore
bashing of her and so by not specifying that I wasn't choosing 'a' or
'b' she's entitled to think I was bashing her as well along with the
After the ban, I took all of the pictures I had gathered while a member
of tenimyunorondo and uploaded to my own lj (in a non-f-locked post
since I never f-lock my posts, it's a pride thing, same as how I never
log the IP of commentors). Here I made the mistake of posting the
link to that entry on a public community which invited a flood of
This part is opinion as I am stating my reasons for my actions, it WILL be biased -->
Now certainly, one of the main motivations for my actions was in fact,
retaliation. Not simply for the ban as most people might believe,
but for having kept my mouth shut for the past year not wanting to
cause waves by standing up and balantly disagreeing with some of the
ways this fandom is run seeing as those I'm opposing are all either
mods of communities that basically have a lock-hold on the lj
tenimyu/bleachmyu fandom, or people that have access to the merchandies
of tenimyu/bleachmyu (and by the way that the mods of tenimyu and bleach_myu
retaliated to this incident by banning me, I'd say my fears for this
entire year has been more than justified). Before this incident,
literally every single other fan I had spoken to agreed with me and
like myself, were simply holding themselves back because they did not
want to go against mods or those "in power" (in quotations, I couldn't
think of any other word to describe it).
The other reason which I don't think many if any people will believe
me, is that I wanted to share these pictures with my friends. Period.
Some of you have asked why didn't I just direct them to
tenimyuenorondo?? The application process isn't THAT tough. For
some of my friends, it's because they shared my view about the way the
fandoms' are being run, and thus no matter how tempting it was to just
join, they didn't want to stoop to my level. For others, they're
simply not a part of any fandoms and many don't even have lj
accounts. To try and tell them to get an account, apply to this
comm, and wait for a day and then I will show them this picture of this
darling boy who's sooooo cute, all I get is strange looks of "are you
insane??". Especially if I tell them that I have the pictures I
just can't send it to them over msn at the time of the conversation
because of these rules because the fans in Japan don't like us
spreading these pictures around plus the companies might find out etc.
etc. etc. To the fans, we know about all these risks, to some
girl who's grown up in North America, she'd just shrug her shoulders
and go "so? send the pic!" (That's from real life experience).
So there's my 2 reasons/excuses for my actions.
In response to my posting the link on a public community, a flood of people stormed my lj and a flame-war ensued (check here)
as well as hinoai putting the tenimyuenorondo community on temporary
hiatus. Not pleasant, espcially since I have never in all my
years on the internet ever been flamed for anything nor ever been told
in my 19 years of life I am even disliked (not to my face anyway,
there's probably some haters of me, can't expect everyone to like
everyone else), but tempers were running high and so the insults were
understandable as I had no doubt said some very provocative things in
return. For those comments, I sincerely apologize. I should
have taken a day off from lj and cooled my head, easier said than done
as I'm sure most people'd know.
So why is this post here then?? Well, several people accused me of
ruining the fandom for everyone or at least a giant portion of it, to
which I pointed out that out of the 1434 members on the tenimyu
community, less than 10% has even bothered to acknowledge what's
happened (I took that percentage from the number of people who
commented during the flame war). But fair enough, this post is
here for the simple reason of me seeing exactly how many people I have
ruined this fandom for. If more
than 50% of the 1434 members comment here saying that yes I most
certainly have ruined it, then I will apologize and take down my post
(with the pictures in it) and if hinoai has any requests of me then I
shall fulfill them to my best ability (er...within my limits,
I'm afraid I can't buy mansions or send a million dollars in
compensation as much as I would like to). So, spread the word
around to the various fandom communities to let people know as I can't
do that myself anymore. I WILL
be logging IP in this post so please don't vote twice, HOWEVER, as
someone pointed out to me, some members on the tenimyu community might
actually be the same person with 2 accounts. If that applies, just vote
using both accounts and even though the IP numbers will be the same, I
will personally check the userinfo's of the accounts and as long as
neither one has been created from today or onwards, I will take that as
sufficient evidence that you didn't simply create an account for the
purpose of voting here.
I was thinking the time limit to vote is 2 weeks. If someone
believes that is too long or short, let me know. Just simply
write a one line message saying something as simply as "Yes you have
ruined the tenimyu/bleachmyu fandom completely for me". Also,
please refrain from replying to other people's comments, I will
probably delete any replies to comments as that will just make counting
the votes accumulated easier (I can just see what the comment number is
instead of having to personally count through 700 or some-what
comments). If anyone has concerns, questions, feels I should
modify this post in anyway (ie. I made it too biased on one point or
maybe I should re-word something or I forgot something) let me know,
though perferably not on this post (email on userinfo page or comment
in another post).
Thank you and I hope this is sufficient for at least the majority (I
won't say everyone since there will never be a tme when 100% of a
population will agree on anything). We practiced our democratic
rights here in Canada only a week or so ago in our federal elections,
and now I'm applying that same practice to this issue. VOTE AND
LET ME KNOW!! Because honestly I DO want to know how many people cares
enough for this fandom to decide.
Current Mood: calm
Um... I love you? X3
I don't think it's possible for one person out of over a thousand to "ruin" a community...
er...o..k? XDD I didn't expect the 2 first comments to be for me O__o...I guess what I'll do then is let people have their say on here and count however many comments are against me at the end of the 2 weeks or something (seeing as even i can't help replying to a comment XD I was more or less expecting people to take this chance to scream and yell and flame me somewhere in which case it'd be easier not to reply).
|Date:||January 31st, 2006 12:12 am (UTC)|| |
Are we voting here? Are comments screened? I'm so confused. I saw your earlier post with the pictures but I didn't see the ensuing flame war. How ridiculous. I hate fandom so much, sometimes. Or, no, I hate people in fandoms so much. The fandom itself is okay.
♥ Nothing's been ruined for me at all. Whoever makes such a claim seriously needs to get a life. I love Tenimyu but oh my God, it is not everything. You've been quite mature about this too. (Or I may be biased because I like you. XD; Well, the mod of tenimyu is not my favorite person in the world either...ehm.)
Er...sorry for the confusion, comments aren't screened, and my initial thought was only have people AGAINST me (aka they hate me for what I did and I've ruined their fandom because of this) comment in here so I thought it'd be nice if they can see how many votes have racked up already. But since the first 2 'votes' are apparently FOR what I did....uh...I guess I'll just let everyone express their views here and count the votes at the end of the two weeks. Would you feel safer if I screened them?? Because then if there's going to be both people FOR and AGAINST me posting in here, I don't want people voting FOR me to get penalized later like me and some of my fellow friends were.
|Date:||January 31st, 2006 12:33 am (UTC)|| |
you are ridiculously self-important. your actions were disgusting. it shouldn't take 500 people to flood your journal and tell you that. in fact, i think enough people expressed their opinions in the initial post with the downloads. i hope people just ignore you and see you as the immature brat that you are.
1 against me.
Do you not agree with the democratic way of resolving issues? Also, obviously, even people that might have agreed with me or were neutral to the issue wouldn't have voiced their opinions because of the consequences as can clearly be seen with me as the example. So this way, people that disagree can have their say, which is fair, and people that agree can have their say (by staying silent ironically) without getting penalized for their opinions.
|Date:||January 31st, 2006 02:13 am (UTC)|| |
I've been following this because a few people on my friend's list are pretty upset about this. What point are you trying to make?
Less than 30% of the people in tenimyu are in tenimyuenorondo. Some people in tenimyuenorondo aren't even in the tenimyu comm so 70% of tenimyu didn't want to join tenimyuenorondo. 70% of tenimyu don't care about what's in tenimyuenorondo and can live without the pictures you've posted. They don't really need to see the pictures and it's cool if they get it and it's cool if they don't, otherwise they would have already joined the community if they really wanted to see what was in it. I think you're hurting the ones that actually do care about what's going on.
If they don't want to "stoop to that level" just to see scans or they don't want to go through the trouble of getting an account when someone took the trouble time and money to buy, scan, and write stuff, then they don't really need to see it or want to see it that badly. It's supposed a two way street and I think you're just catering to selfish people.
If you know your friends would LIKE to see/get something and it's within your power to let them see/receive it, wouldn't you? That's what friends are for are they not? The people that didn't want to "stoop to that level" were my friends, people that I know, as for the rest of the comm, I haven't spoken to and after this they're probably too scared to stand up anyway. No one really NEEDS to see it, we can all breath and stay alive without a few pictures, but it's NICE to isn't it?
You ruin my fandom.. but people like hinoai
make it better for me
So - for you and + for hinoai
Sigh. So, you want to share the scans with your friends over MSN. Well, that is too bad. If they don't understand why you can't, explain it to them. These are valid rules, not arbitrary demands. So, just because you are inconvenienced, it does not mean that the fandom is mismanaged. And in the case of the North American girl who hasn't heard of these things, I have to point out that ignorance of legal restrictions doesn't make them disappear, nor does it justify disregard of them.
Many communities require that media posts are f-locked, such as death_eyes--that is not controlling the fandom nor mismanaging it: it is a prudent precautionary measure againt legal perils.
As for your banning, I agreed with what tokkitsu
said in the previous post: you should have talked it over with hinoai rather than acting spitefully as you have.
I do not think you have ruined the entire fandom, but you have marred it with your disrespectful behaviour toward hinoai and the members of tenimyuenorondo who appreciate her efforts.
Nah, you ruined nothing for me. I still ♥ you.
Though, I don't really get the voting thing? Is it just a matter of taking down or keeping the pictures? I don't see how that's a big issue to be concerned over :/? It's just a few pictures...
People are displeased because Hinoai is on hiatus because you posted them on your journal, and because of that, she won't be scanning stuff for a while, right? Personally I think that's kinda overreacting. The following sentence is not meant to offend anyone's personal views, please don't take this as opposing your idea: It seems to me that the chance of someone getting sued because of some pics being posted on the internet is less than 0.0000001%. If you look around on Chinese BBS, pics and magazine scans are posted everywhere. I mean if someone wants to share them with her friends, there's nothing wrong with that [with practically zero chance of getting into trouble]. However, this is just my personal opinion, if people have different opinion and obey the law with loyalty, I respect that.
The whole thing has been made unnecessarily complicated somehow xD, I think I'll just be confusing myself if I think about it more. However, I certainly don't think people should go as far as saying "ruined the fandom", because fandom can still exist without a few pictures =_=.
People are definitely overreacting to this. Girls [and maybe boys??], chill.
Lol, yeah, it's amazing what a weight is taken off when you realize we're fighting over a few sheets of kodak. But anyway, the voting is basically for taking the pics down and apology. It's not really a big deal to you or me and I think a few others, but for some it apparently is so yeah, that's why. Thanks for your support though dear, and I'm sorry you got into trouble by simply associating with me.
hmmm ok i understand what some people might say about this. but in all truth. if someone wants something so bad there gonna get.
yes she bought the stuff. yes she scanned them. but then she shouldn't of posted them on the net. who knows where these pics are now. and what other sites there on now. if there not copyrighted by that person, then she shouldn't of posted them on the net. and she shouldn't complain if someone takes the pics and post them somewhere else. for in my eyes, once there up well thats it. there up. *scratches head* this isn't really making any sence >.> but i agree with koneko.
*gets self ready for flames*
But we all know that picpile isn't the only picture host out there is it? Although at the moment the professors' have got us fairly buried under work enough to make me cut back my internet time, so I won't waste time uploading them.
|Date:||January 31st, 2006 11:38 am (UTC)|| |
you lack more English concept and common sense of anyone
Er...I think that should read "You lack English concept and common sense"?? Because by saying I lack MORE English concept, you're at least giving me the leeway that I have at least SOME English concept.
Okay, so this is pretty much my opinion on this post.
Basically, apologizing now is completely useless. Everyone knows that if you need votes to apologize, then you will not be 100% sincere. Not being 100% sincere makes an apology useless.
I have nothing against your opinions, though I don't completely agree with it either, nothing against you, but I am saying "no".
If you had taken down the scans, came into the community, posted a formal apology such as, "I'm very sorry, I noticed my actions were selfish and hurting a lot of people" (since indeed they were) then you would have recieved a much different response.
And for all posting as anonymous, there is no reason to hide identity at this point. We all have our opinions and it's just pointless. And if you are posting as anonymous because you don't have a LJ account, then stay out of OUR business. This doesn't concern you, get lost.
I am washing my hands of this matter from here on out. I have my own problems to deal with now over at tenimyu
I don't believe apologizing now is useless. Actions are often not right or wrong but it is the obervers that preceive them to be right or wrong. And this vote is to see what the observers thought.
For example, and this is completely off-topic, but just as an example that actions are not all black or white, if a man steals the medicine that can save the life of his child because he simply doesn't have the money to buy it, are his actions right or wrong? Some people would say he was right, others would say he was wrong. So in this case, democratically speaking, the opinion that has the support of the majority of people is valid. I do believe an apology can be sincere after a vote.
this is getting out of control...
for the person posting Anonymously seriously, why don't you log. in for heaven's sake or something then you can whine all you like. *shakes head again* *then again if u don't have an LJ account..*
*pats shoulder* Don't worry...
Although let me get this straight..how does this make you ruin a fandom? Some people take thier fandom wayyyyyyy too seriously. Since doesn't the term "fan" refer to everybody and not just one person?
Yeah I think I was one of them taking the fandom too seriously, it was actually getting in the way of my school work and grades, that's way overboard. So yeah, after this, it's actually kinda good because I've realized I need to re-set my priorities on my studies and put this second if not third or even fourth on my priorities list.
Out of interest, I scanned through the community in question... it is quite possibly the most anal and secretive community ever. It's utterly ridiculous that people would take something as silly as Japanese cartoon about TENNIS of all things so damn seriously. In the FMA community, everybody shares everything! If someone buys a compilation disc, they scan the pictures and post them up there. Sure, icon credits are mandatory, but still, loving anime is a hobby. If you put something up on the Internet, you can't stop people from stealing it.
The reason why she was so nervous about sharing the pictures was because in the tenimyu
community they were having lots of problems with the Japanese fans getting upset because we/they(since I wasn't a member at the time) were sharing pictures/files. hinoai
didn't want to have to deal with this trouble and so she set up those rules.
In a way, I can understand why she would do this and if I ran the community I would probably do the same thing. But, once again, once something goes on the internet what happens from there on out is god only knows. No one can prevent a file from being shared 100%. It's nice that she is trying to do this and persecutes anyone who can't stand a simple, understandable rule, but at the same time it can be seen as harsh. That's just the way it is. If someone sees it as just her being a "bitch" then don't join the community and get the scans from somewhere else.
And, yes, I said I was washing my hands of the matter, but I'm in class on break and I'm bored. =(
|Date:||February 1st, 2006 12:19 pm (UTC)|| |
I agree with some that this is getting out of hand... but I still find your previous actions (the one with the scans) disgusting :(
Wow now you're h0ring for comments and usually I stay back away from these events because you're obviously just looking for more attention but here I go. I've talked to hinoai a few times but I haven't kept up to date with her. She'a fun and nice, easygoing fangirl. And though I'd like to get to know her more I just never got the chance. But this isn't about my relationship with her. I haven't talked to her for half a year now. I think what you're doing is absolutely horrible.
Firstly, the majority of fans never get to Japan. So seeing things posted by people who have worked hard to get in japan is the only way some of these fandoms are able to get so large. She is spending her own money to buy magazines and all the things to get them posted up so people can see what these actors are up to. Then you girls can all fangirl and be happy.
If these pictures are reposted and linked back to her she can get into very serious trouble because Japanese are tight on piracy and redistribution. Or maybe you don't know that much about Japan yet. There was a reason why all media posts on LJ are friendslocked.
She can go to all those events because she's paid to be in the fanclubs and be notified and because she has access to those events. She has placed an importance of those events in her life so she makes time for them. Maybe if you saved up money to move over there yourself you'd be able to do that too. But bashing people who have done so for elitism is rather a backwards step. Without them what would anybody else know about Japan?
And then everybody loves seeing myu posts and such recounting the events because then we get to find out about all the little adlibs and quirks not in the dvd. How else would we know about them otherwise? Thus comments saying she's being an elitist are hypocritical and stupid.
Japanese people have also found a fascination with foreign people. So foreign people find it easier to talk to them sometimes because of it. Kimery and Ayumi Hamasaki both adore foreign people. So it's unfair Elijah Wood doesn't pay special attention to asian people to balance it out, such implications by fangirls against Hinoai are stupid. She was born that way, they like it, deal with it.
I'm being repetitive but it's stupid that she spend her time and money for you to repost and distribute her scans against her will.